I seems to me that the only way Steve Jobs could know that Flash was “too slow to be useful” and that Flash Lite was “not capable of being used with the web.” would be if Apple had “Flash already running on iPhones internally in Apple’s lab for a long time”

It could just be the same as flash on a slow internet connection. Too painfully slow to be used and damn right annoying when encountered on a web site.

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I hate websites that use Flash for their intro page view.  Even on a Mac Pro it sucks!  Why would Apple want to help make Flash the standard for wireless internet when Adobe is so poor at supporting Apple’s OS.

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Well, those who want Flash on their iPhone don’t want it for website that are fully written in Flash, or that feature Flash intros. it’s more about integration - being able to directly visit a website with a Flash embed, and playing that embed, etc. There are some legitimate, non-annoying uses!

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@Robert

If you think Adobe is poor at supporting Apple’s OS than you probably have never used Linux (waiting for Adobe to support your AMD64-based distribution) or a Mac/Java developer (watching Apple making your life miserable everyday). Adobe and Macromedia apps have a strong legacy on the Mac, dating back to the Classic days.
But never forget that Mac is a closed ecosystem, don’t even try to enter Apple dev lists without taking a blood oath to secrecy first. Apple’s moto “we think, you obbey” works well for some people, just not for the open-thinking minds.

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Yea, this is like Asteroid, the fake music hardware ruse used just to ferret out info leakers. Flash will NEVER be on the iPhone because:

a) It’s Adobe’s
b) it’s pointless waste of battery and processing power like the ad above so the old guys mouth can open and words can be put on the screen. Flash is animated Gif’s 2.0 - funny and harmless on a desktop but 99.99% waste on a portable machine.
c) with an SDK, flash is even more pointless as if it weren’t already 99.99% pointless already.

GearLive, your contact has been told they’re negotiating but it will conclude on the same day that Steve Jobs drops dead and Adobe is allowed to put a big pink sticker on the outside of the iphone box that says NOW WITH DRM FLASH by ADOBE!!!.

In other words, that guy will be fired from Apple long before Adobe closes up shop in 5 years when all their apps are open-sourced.

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<cite>Why would Apple possibly want for this not to happen?</cite>

The three—count’em, three—likely reasons why Apple’s iPhone rules forbid interpreted apps that don’t use Apple technologies are…

1. Security. Any app that allows plugins allows a way for viruses and other malware to get into the machine.

2. User experience. Flash patches have been coming pretty fast and furious these days, as Adobe rushes in security fixes, DRM and new features out to users. This would give iPhone users the feeling that they are janitors to their self-important phone. (And they’d be right!) Bad enough that Apple has had to disseminate 4 updates.

3. Performance. Flash slows down older Macs on busy pages. It could be gawdawful on Edge for a slower processor, and that’s also a perception issue that Apple doesn’t want to own.

I’m not doubting that Apple has <i>tried</i> Flash in their labs, maybe getting it to work halfway well. But you could say the same for Java, Dot Net and half a dozen popular scripting languages, too. If you tried to support all of ‘em, you’d fill up the iPhone with cruft (no room for your music & vids!) and for your trouble make QuickTime a less important format for websites. What sort of a good deal is that?

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Has anybody heard about the iPhone finally being upgraded to run on AT&T;‘s 3G network? I read on an iPhone site that if and whe it happens it would not happen with this current version of the iPhone but rather be a 2nd generation iPhone? Everybody who bought this first version would be trying to unload them quick on eBay I guess…lol.

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@Walt French - My sentiments exactly. Please see:

http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q108-flash-on-iphone-is-just-around-the-corner/#c23577

If you look at what Apple has done before with formats they don’t consider compatible, it’s obvious where Flash will be:

-Cordoned off as an app like Youtube.app if it’s there at all.

-Embedded in Opera or another browser that makes it to the App Store. [ref Opera on the Wii]

But as a plugin mucky mucking with iPhone WebKit???  No.

And I agree with you on all counts; Adobe really has put some faith in Blink / Animated gif 2.0. Useless in the mobile arena UNLESS they really think thru things with AIR. And even then… hmm.

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I’m so sick of hearing about Flash on the iPhone.  I can’t think of a single site that I visit on an even occasional basis that uses Flash.  Whenever I’m given the choice of visiting a Flash or HTML version of a site, I always choose HTML.  The only thing Flash is good for is web toons.

I hope Apple doesn’t given in.  The web should be open, so unless Adobe plans to open source Flash, it needs to go.  And, as for the PDF issue, well, I just upgraded to Acrobat Professional 8 on my new 24” iMac (2.8gHz Core Duo Extreme) and it is DOG SLOW.  I can’t get over how long it takes to launch.  And the web plugin sucks hard.  Each time I view a PDF in Safari, I have to wait, and wait, and wait while the lame plugin loads, draws its toolbar one icon at a time, then finally loads the page.

Just say NO to Adobe!!!  They were a shining star once, for sure, but these days they’re as bloated and insufferable as Microsoft.

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http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/18/adobe_begins_work_on_flash_player_for_iphone.html

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You are missing the point. The touch and the iphone have great potential as mobile learning devices, but not until they support Flash. There is a big corporate market that can turn these devices into useful business appliances with flash, but without it they are just gimmick toys with no practical use except for gadget freaks to play with and quickly tire of.

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@rogerm

All my vitriol aside, you’re correct about the iPhone and iPod Touch. They are limited in what they can do, I think the -next- generation has potential, but I can tell you [as a jailbreaker] that graphic intensive and background apps eat the battery time.

That is why Google Maps and other ‘Mashup’ apps don’t live in the browser, but as separate apps. This is how Apple discourages ‘constant use’.

The other thing is, that Apple is embracing HTML5 and AJAX to get things done. If you want basic interactivity you have a choice:

-Use Safari, HTML5 and the basic interactivity that way, or,

-Code a standalone learning app via AIR or whatever Flash runtime that Adobe comes up with. But understand: You will NOT live in MobileSafari.

The current situation [Adobe backing off, articles today] bears this out.

Also, bear in mind that there were web devs in the past that ‘couldn’t live without’ animated gif and midi sounds. They had to adapt. As will Flash devs, if they want to develop in the iphone / itouch space.

But I can guarantee to you: these little devices are NOT toys. There are a number of apps and scripts [Unix tools, javascript bookmarklets like iTransmogrify!] that make these little machines productive.

Me, if I’m out at a cafe, I don’t even haul my laptop around. I can ssh, vnc, check mail, get info, have a local wikipedia on my iTouch.

And if the power considerations were solved, I could do this for more than 2-5 hours. *sigh*

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“The only reason we can think of right now is AT&T;’s fear of VOIP apps running through Flash.”

as they should be. since VOIP is working in flash as3 now! (dev of course, but functional!)

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I doubt the iPhones hardware could support flash, and if it could the quality wouldn’t be that great.  Even on Windows flash is a little buggy and takes some time to load, just imagine how it would be on a mobile device like the iPhone.  If it was successfully added though it would open a whole lot more capabilities for the iPhone.  A lot of web based applications are flash based.

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I think flash is very much possible. Especially with the new 3G iPhone coming out.
There’s no reason why Apple shouldn’t have it on the iPhone other than business reasons. Technically wise, the iPhone is the best candidate on the market for having full integrated flash.
It will happen eventually. It may take a year or two for the two companies to get past thier differences but I’m convinced it will happen.
With the income that Apple will get from the new release of the 3G, Apple may just be able to buy Adobe. (Something that I’d love to see someday.)

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Even if Flash could be optimized to run faster on OS X with less of an impact on the CPU and battery life, there’d still remain a huge issue of clashing UIs and interaction frameworks on the iPhone between Adobe and Apple. The iPhone is establishing the first multi-touch driven mass-market platform, Flash doesn’t even have a multi-touch framework. I explore the implications of this for both Adobe and Apple in:

The new UI wars: Why there’s no Flash on iPhone 2.0
http://counternotions.com/2008/06/17/flash-iphone/

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Flash is running on the iPhone now, yours, at home. All of YouTube’s videos are in FLV, flash video format. A while back, Adobe/Macromedia made swf an open format, so Apple can make it’s own player if needed.

The problem is irresponsible flash developers building crappy flash apps that suck 100% cpu of ANY machine. For the web to work OK on the iPhone, they can’t let flash work in the browser.

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I wish the author of the Article would print a retraction that apple is NOT planning to implement flash any time soon. Reliable source? C’mon, if Jobs says no flash then no flash, period. There is no point in trying to instill false hope in iphone users.

Besides, the only reason I want to watch streaming video from news sites.

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No, as announced when the iPhone was released, Youtube re-encoded al/mostl of their videos to H264 mp4 for the iPhone/iPod.

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LOL.  Sure, we will have Flash for the iPhone….when one day the iPhone will fly. 

The latest firmware for the iPhone 2.1 released September 12, 2008 doesn’t have any added Flash support.

As the media recently reported., Apple is moving away from the iPhone and focussing on the iPod.

Don’t be surprised if the iPhone ends up like HD DVD and Beta.  Time to sell my iPhone on Ebay while I can get something for it.

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There is no stalling on this issue or a delay due to business issues.  Adobe Flash uses way too much processing power on the iPhone.  It’s not going to happen in the 1st or 2nd Gen iPhone. On the otherhand, don’t be surprised it we will see it on the 4th Gen iPhone , IF Apple doesn’t drop the iPhone.

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I’m not really sure why this is a big issue.
Every windows based mobile phone can have anything installed that does it all.
voip, teathering, flash, just about everything. Even on the att system.
Why are windows phones not locked down the same as apples?
I have to beleive it is all apple. They are the problem.
They have locked this phone so tight that people have a huge uprising of jailbroke phones now. It is going to get bigger no matter how hard apple tries to stop it.
I am even thinking about doing it.

Apple wake up. Do what the people are asking. Give us a phone that is not only fun to use, but is useful also.

thanks

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It seems to me the most obvious reason why Apple would not want Flash to run on the iPhone is due to the direct competition Flash based applications would create with Apple’s application store for the iPhone. Nearly all of that stuff can be created with Flash, so why would anyone want to buy similar applications through Apple when they can get it for free with Flash?

See what they are trying to protect? That’s the real reason imo, everything else is just tosh.

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