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Completed the Matrix Trilogy last night - what the hell?
Posted: 13 September 2004 07:27 AM     [ Ignore ]  
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u know .. i actually liked it all ..

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Posted: 13 September 2004 07:27 AM   [ # 1 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Someone give me a synopsis of what exactly the point is of the trilogy. I understood the original movie perfectly fine, and feel it went downhill in the second and third. What is up with the ending of the third movie?

What is the point of the trilogy???  :cry:

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Posted: 13 September 2004 07:45 AM   [ # 2 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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* Cracks his knuckles *

The story has different meanings to different people.  The theme for me personally, is Control.  There is so much to uncover in these films, so you might need to ask one question at a time to make it easier. 

[Edit: SPOILERS]

Many people were confused at the end of the 2nd film but basically the Architect explained that Neo is no accident, and that in fact, there have been several iterations of Neo that came about before him, and that Zion has been destroyed before and rebuilt.  So it has been an endless cycle.

This time around, in the third film we have the Agent Smith situation (out of control duplicates).  In order to stop him, the machines create a truce with Neo and humanity, which ultimately saved Zion from being destroyed.  That’s basically it.

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Posted: 13 September 2004 01:21 PM   [ # 3 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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booo you suck…I haven’t seen the second or third yet amazingly..wow i suck

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Posted: 13 September 2004 02:18 PM   [ # 4 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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[quote author=“snakeyes17”]booo you suck…I haven’t seen the second or third yet amazingly..wow i suck

Don’t bother. They suck hard.

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Posted: 13 September 2004 02:41 PM   [ # 5 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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I saw the second one and I hated it so I refuse to see the third.  The second one for me was just a bunch of way too long fight scenes interrupted by complicated explanations that meant crap.

I’m the type of person that can really watch any movie even if it sucks and like it.. that movie.. i hated, so that’s a low.  I also hated the whole thing with trinity and neo doing the whole code thing.. I’m trying to avoid ruining it for people who haven’t seen.. but yeah.. whatever

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Posted: 13 September 2004 05:27 PM   [ # 6 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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ok good that i didnt waste a couple bucks on renting them lol

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Posted: 14 September 2004 10:53 AM   [ # 7 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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As a HUGE fan of the Matrix, and a huge fan of the Latex clad Monica Bellucci….

I BEG YOU, don’t see Part 2 and 3 (if you haven’t already).

I loved part 1.  And honestly I didn’t think part 2 was bad.  The explanations given in two were fine and made sense in a non corny/cheesy way.  It seemed as a segway to me.  Fine…I was hyped for 3.

Let’s review: 

Matrix 1 - Kickass, good story, good effects, nice subcultural angle, many many many hidden agenda’s and meaning.

Matrix 2 - Not kickass, but still very good (though it dragged in a few spots).  Takes some of the most popular plot lines and agenda’s of part one and runs with it.  Insert Latex clad Monica Bellucci.  Adds just enough additional info to make you salivate and ponder what the next installment will be.  Introduces some new characters to drive the story further….  great, well worth seeing ....if and only if the next movie is good.

See that’s the problem.  Part 1 stands on it’s own, it’s not dependent on anything else for the story to be valid.  Part 2 is good, but cannot stand on it’s own, it’s a cliffhanger-esque.  It doesn’t tell a complete story.  Therefore it relies on it’s sequel.

So then we have Part 3.

Oh, let’s ditch all the cool tech angles, all the good hidden agendas.  Let’s forget we introduced some complex characters in part 2 and instead just reduce them to mindless drones.  Let’s spend too much time focusing on how we replaced an actor (the oracle). 

I know, I know.  Let’s just pretend all of the cool unexplained stuff and techno mumbo jumbo didn’t happen.  Let’s just make Neo turn into Jesus and make it a ‘feel good’ moment for humanity….

I almost cried I was so bitterly dissapointed and angry.

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Posted: 14 September 2004 01:30 PM   [ # 8 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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LOTR>Matrix raspberry. Part one was easier to understand, i was completly lost in #2 and #3 just sucked

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Posted: 15 September 2004 04:24 AM   [ # 9 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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More SPOILERS Below, and in all my Posts.  You’ve been warned.

As a HUGE fan of the Matrix, and a huge fan of the Latex clad Monica Bellucci….

I BEG YOU, don’t see Part 2 and 3 (if you haven’t already).

You are no true huge fan of the Matrix, from what you’re posting.  :|  The sequels took some thought on the audience’s part to understand, and provided incredible action….MUCH better than the crap on other films.  To date, no film can compare.

I loved part 1. And honestly I didn’t think part 2 was bad. The explanations given in two were fine and made sense in a non corny/cheesy way. It seemed as a segway to me. Fine…I was hyped for 3.

Who didn’t love part 1?  Part 2 was great, and in my eyes better than part 1 in some ways.  I was SO hyped for 3 after that.  It’s when I began discussing the film on message boards.

Matrix 2 - Not kickass, but still very good (though it dragged in a few spots).

Go and watch M1 again, and you will be surprised how much it drags.  The real good action stuff doesn’t come until the last 30 minutes or so when you get to the lobby scene. 

great, well worth seeing ....if and only if the next movie is good.

Since when is one film “worth seeing” if only if its continuation is good?  Kill Bill 2 sucked, but the first one is still worth seeing.  ROTJ doesn’t make ESB any less of a movie.  Pfff!

Oh, let’s ditch all the cool tech angles, all the good hidden agendas.

Good angles: The final DragonBallZ-esque fight with Smith, the ship breaking through the clouds to see the sun, the other ship racing through the tunnels on its way to Zion, the outbreak of sentinels pouring in above the city, the face of the Machine God represented by swarming sentinels.  There were many more…  In terms of angles and visuals there was much to see.

Let’s forget we introduced some complex characters in part 2 and instead just reduce them to mindless drones.

Zee was actually a bigger role in part 3.  Additional roles that were expanded in 3: The Captain of the Hammer, the leader of the Zion defense (the one manning the bots), the Kid who was eager to help Neo, and Bane (Smith in human form).  Don’t say everyone is reduced without checking your facts.

Let’s spend too much time focusing on how we replaced an actor (the oracle).

Yes, the Oracle was a different person, and they explained it with one line about how she “sold her shell” to help the indian man (with the family).  That’s all there was to it.  It was still kind of weak I know, but let’s see one of your main actors die while making a trilogy, and see what you do.  Remember Aaliyah also died.  When you think about it, they had a lot of challenges for these films. 

I know, I know. Let’s just pretend all of the cool unexplained stuff and techno mumbo jumbo didn’t happen. Let’s just make Neo turn into Jesus and make it a ‘feel good’ moment for humanity….

Really, no other ending was possible when you think about it.  What did you expect, for Neo to kick all the sentinels’ butts in bullet-time?  You can tell that even he has limits in the “real world” based on the ending to Reloaded.

I almost cried I was so bitterly dissapointed and angry.

I thought the third film, despite all I mentioned was the weakest of the three. 

But others think that the third was actually better than Reloaded, especially folks on the boards.  I did have some questions about the third one, but instead of being left out in the dark, I sought out the answers through board discussions.

Before you reply, I want to say that in the end, I’m not going to change how you felt about the movie.  You are entitled to your own opinion.

However, I will provide abundant examples to correct any misconceptions people may have.  You can’t come in here without providing concrete proof.

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Posted: 15 September 2004 04:25 AM   [ # 10 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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[quote author=“snakeyes17”]booo you suck…I haven’t seen the second or third yet amazingly..wow i suck

I will change the text to add some spoiler warnings.  Sorry.

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Posted: 15 September 2004 07:59 AM   [ # 11 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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YES - Thank you Hector. As much info as I can get on the trilogy would be good. I still dont really “get it”.

At the end of Revolutions, when the Oracle and Architect met, to me it seemed like the whole thing was just a game between the two of them.

And what was up with the Oracle taking Smith’s body, and then after being defeated, turning back into the Oracle?

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Posted: 15 September 2004 10:04 AM   [ # 12 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Hector,

Very well thought out and versed reply.  I have no intention of arguing with you except on one point.

My entire posting was my opinion and how I FELT about the movie.  As such I don’t feel it necessary to explain every detail of the movie.  I’m not critiquing, just say I don’t like it and felt this way and that.  If it was taken as a pure factual analyzed critque then I apologize as that was not my intent.

Now then, I’m sure I won’t change your mind, nor will you change mine.  We have our opinions.  But since you replied with your interpretations I’d like to resond with some of mine.  Since, I do think we agree that these films are very good at thought provoking and philosphy.

And it’s all in good fun, so don’t take it as an attack, just two people debating over a movie :D

1.  Yes I AM a fan of the Matrix.  I didn’t say anything about being or not being a fan of ‘the Matrix Trilogy’.  Very big difference.  I’m a fan of the original installment title ‘The Matrix’.  I don’t like the sequels.

2.  Yes part 1 did drag in some spots and had it’s overly cheezy moments.  I never stated it didn’t.  I merely stated that part 2 drags in places.  It does.  And as you point out, so does part 1, and to some extent part 3 as well. 

3.  “Since when is one film “worth seeing” if only if its continuation is good? Kill Bill 2 sucked, but the first one is still worth seeing. ROTJ doesn’t make ESB any less of a movie. Pfff! “

Good points on the movies in question.  However I was not making the general statement that a member of any series is only good if it’s follow up is good.  My statement was limited only to Matrix Reloaded. 

Kill Bill, while somewhat of a cliffhanger is a complete story.  It has a plot, a rising action and a closing action.  She accolishes her goals of killing members of the squad. 

ESB is a complete idea, story, chapter in a story.  It doesn’t rely on ROTJ.

However, in part two we end with MAIN character on an operating table, not knowing his immediate fate.

The differences is between battles and war.  Put it this way.  Empire Stikes back is a battle.  THe entire battle is shown.  We know it’s still a war and can continue being told, but the current battle is shown start to finish.  The thought is processed and completed.

In Matrix Reloaded, we don’t see the end result of what happens to Neo.  The complete battle isn’t shown.  You HAVE to see part 3 just to see if Neo lives or not in the first 5 minutes.  THEN the battle is complete and you can go on with the rest of the war.  FOR THAT reason I don’t think Reloaded stands on it own and therefore is dependent on Revolutions.

4.  As to agendas and character’s being reduced.  What I mean is that in Reloaded we meet the Twins and add in the twist of ghosts, vampires, etc.  That opens up a whole new plot element that is NEVER explored.  We meet the Merovigian who is major badass with power.  He wants power, has a history with the Oracle and is seemingly a Rogue program that should have been terminated.  THerefore he isn’t part of the main equation that is balanced with Neo and Smith.  Another great new plot twist.  Yet instead of building on that in Revolutions, he is simply the main guy in a VIP booth at a fetish club.  He is too easily over thrown, has some insignificant role and then is forgotten about.

Dee had a bigger part, as did the leader of the Zion protective robots.  But in the grand scheme of things they are only bit players and didn’t really deserve being developed further.

These are only examples.

5.  Last but not least, the Jesus angle.  You say no other angle was possible.  But there were tons of ways the plot could have explained from 2 - 3.  We see Neo has power in the Real World at the end of Part 2.

I expected that to be explained by saying they NEVER left the Matrix to begin with.  That they were in a Matrix inside the Matrix.  That explanation alone would have fit everything previously explained.

But you see, up untill part 3, we never get into theology or ‘power’ beyond the Matrix.  Neo always has the power INSIDE the matrix.  It was all very tech, hacker, geek driven and sci-fi.

Part three goes the opposite direction and makes Neo a super human or god, it enters the Fantasy realm.  That’s all well and good except that it does fit into the genre the first two films started.

Now, before I end, I want to go back and reiterate this last point.  He defeats Smith inside the Matrix.  That fits the story and is FINE.  My problem is with his ability to ‘see’ in the real world while blind, and his ability to control/destory sentinals in the real world.  That’s just crap.  In my opinion.  They could have handled that better.

Those two things don’t jive well to me.  That is what ruined it for me.

Again, just my opinion.  If you like it great.  This is what made ME not like it.

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Posted: 15 September 2004 11:10 AM   [ # 13 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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At the end of Revolutions, when the Oracle and Architect met, to me it seemed like the whole thing was just a game between the two of them.

The Oracle is central to the whole trilogy.  It’s the one reason that keeps believers like Morpheus in search of Neo.  In Revolutions she talks about how the Architect seeks control, balance and precision.  (As if you couldn’t tell from the way he talks) and her job is to “unbalance” things.  The whole trilogy is a bit of a chess game between the two.  She guides the anomoly (Neo) to the Source and onward, in the hopes that the humans will prevail.

And what was up with the Oracle taking Smith’s body, and then after being defeated, turning back into the Oracle?

Think of it as Smith overwriting himself on the Oracle.  She let him do it because she could see beyond that moment, since she’s the ever-knowing Oracle. 

At the end, when Smith tells Neo: “Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo…” that was the Oracle, talking through Smith to Neo.  You can tell, because Smith didn’t understand what just came out of his mouth, and because Smith always called Neo “Mr. Anderson” up to that point.

Once Neo took care of Smith, the Matrix reset itself, and all the characters (the Oracle included) were back to normal.

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Posted: 15 September 2004 11:51 AM   [ # 14 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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And it’s all in good fun, so don’t take it as an attack, just two people debating over a movie

Very true, and I respect and admire you for not turning this into some senseless bashing contest.

These movies are not perfect by any means.  I did find some problems with a couple things you mentioned, plus other things as well.  But they do not ruin the great concepts, action, effects, imagery, and thought-provoking lines of all three films.

Revolutions went into some unexpected directions, and I think people had problems with that.  But it’s not our story to tell.  It’s the Wachowski’s.

In Matrix Reloaded, we don’t see the end result of what happens to Neo. The complete battle isn’t shown. You HAVE to see part 3 just to see if Neo lives or not in the first 5 minutes.

That is the very definition of a cliff-hanger.  raspberry   Yes, films aren’t made that way these days, but it helps you build up hype for the third film.  Everyone knew that Revolutions was coming out that same year, so why was this such a surprise?  I mean c’mon, you’ve seen the ads-blitz. 

In fact, the W’s wanted to release Revolutions a mere month after Reloaded, but you can blame the studios for not letting them do it.  We were lucky to get a conclusion that year, as opposed to waiting for 5 or 6.

What I mean is that in Reloaded we meet the Twins and add in the twist of ghosts, vampires, etc. That opens up a whole new plot element that is NEVER explored. We meet the Merovigian who is major badass with power.

The brilliance of the film lies in how there can be enough speculation as to the backgrounds of these characters based on Reloaded alone.  I had so many insightful discussions on these guys with other Matrix fans.  There are little hints sprinkled throughout that you can find if you dig deep enough. 

For example, did you know that the Merovingian (in real life, not in the film) is really a secret society formed to protect the “hidden secrets” of Christ.  Interesting.  :think:

And what about the Twins?  You’ll recall the speech Oracle made about wolves and vampires, so surely the Mero “hangs out” with the likes of these, as you’ve seen.  The twins could be what we consider “ghosts” in our language. 

And Seraph, derived from the name of an angel, was also likely to be part of Mero’s old crew.  He’s no longer with them of course, since they call them the “broken-winged traitor” or something to that effect.  It’s been a while, so forgive my memory. 

All of these insights and possibilities can be imagined or better yet, discussed with other fans.  To me, that’s what makes the trilogy stand above the rest, besides the reasons I already gave.  The film is open to all kinds of interpretation, which yields discussion like these. 

LOTR is a pretty simple story, and repeat-repeat viewings aren’t as enticing to me as a result.  Could we have seen more of the Reloaded characters in Revolutions 3?  Sure.  But again, we’re not writing the story, and there’s plenty of “info” as it is.  You just have to do some thinking and even reading.  Oh God help us all…thinking?....about a movie?  :o   :think:  smile

The “Matrix in a Matrix” theory would have been such a lazy cop-out of an explanation to Neo’s powers.  C’mon, that’s something we could come up with.  A much better and creative resolution is a peaceful sacrificial one. 

Neo’s real-world powers were explained in the film by the Oracle: He’s still connected to the Source.  If you think about it, it’s almost like being connected through a wireless router, or on another frequency. It takes some imagination on our part, but hey, we’re all gear-heads here.

8)

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Posted: 15 September 2004 12:15 PM   [ # 15 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Matrix was a crazy trilogy. its very confusing if u dont put alot of thought and emphasis in it. i went to go see the 2nd and 3rd one opening day @ the movies. i was hyped, but the 3rd just wasnt what i thought it be. my favorite is prolly the 2nd one. but alot of pplz say u have to see about bout The Matrix to fully understand it. that means u have to see the 3 movies, all the animatrix episodes, u have to play the Enter the Matrix game and see the clips from that.

but yea pplz should get this….

http://www.dvdtown.com/discdetails/ultimatematrixcollectionthe/12927/

maybe it will happen even everythin out. lol

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Posted: 15 September 2004 12:26 PM   [ # 16 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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[quote author=“JMillion”]my favorite is prolly the 2nd one.

Me too.  Insane fighting and stunts.

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Posted: 15 September 2004 03:15 PM   [ # 17 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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i liked the first one the best… cause there was actually a sense of like suspense.. cause you dont know if neo is gonna die and shiet… cause in the second and third he is pretty much unkillable.

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Posted: 15 September 2004 07:23 PM   [ # 18 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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[quote author=“gohan_bcc1”]i liked the first one the best… cause there was actually a sense of like suspense.. cause you dont know if neo is gonna die and shiet… cause in the second and third he is pretty much unkillable.

M1= Birth (see the pink pod that they extract him out of)

M2 = Life (Superman powers!)

M3 = Death (Neo’s fate…)

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Posted: 16 September 2004 08:10 AM   [ # 19 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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[quote author=“snak3y3z1001”]LOTR>Matrix raspberry. Part one was easier to understand, i was completly lost in #2 and #3 just sucked

lordsoftherings.jpg

Can’t we all just get along?  What part didn’t you understand?

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Posted: 04 October 2004 10:15 AM   [ # 20 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Double post, sorry.

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Posted: 04 October 2004 10:16 AM   [ # 21 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Those twins reminded me of Milli Vanilli, or the Titte brothers from Upright Citizens Brigade:
picmatrix22.jpg=
p06231ccn9c.jpg=
titte.jpg

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Posted: 05 November 2004 07:44 AM   [ # 22 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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I just got through seeing The Matrix: Reloaded last night, and coming from a boy who minored in Philosophy, I must say that I TOTALLY DID NOT GET IT. :| LOL It was so heady… I dunno… it’s just stuff I expect to hear in school and not in a movie raspberry But anywho, the fighting was fun, I guess, and I was even more lost in this movie than the first one. Hopefully, I’ll be seeing the last movie tonight or sometime in the near future (i.e., this upcoming week)

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Posted: 05 November 2004 07:54 AM   [ # 23 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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What part didn’t you get?  Make sure you read the earlier explanations.

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”]

[Edit: SPOILERS]

Many people were confused at the end of the 2nd film but basically the Architect explained that Neo is no accident, and that in fact, there have been several iterations of Neo that came about before him, and that Zion has been destroyed before and rebuilt.  So it has been an endless cycle.

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Posted: 05 November 2004 07:56 AM   [ # 24 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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[quote author=“creejoh”]Those twins reminded me of Milli Vanilli, or the Titte brothers from Upright Citizens Brigade:

Hah!  I love those pictures.  Morphues fighting the Twins while they phased in and out of his sword-swings was .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).  :love:

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Posted: 05 November 2004 08:05 AM   [ # 25 ]     [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Oh, I totally understood the part with the Architect, but to be quite honest, I don’t even know what the war is for. LOL Why is Agent Smith a bad guy? I mean, apart from wanting to destroy Neo & Co. I went into this movie thinking, “What… what’s going on” All the other little details, however, like the part with the Architect, was easy to understand though. I mean, he explained it so clearly. It’s the more GRAND scheme of the plot (i.e., the war) that has me all the more confused :(

:oops: I thought it was romantic how Neo saved Trinity.. LOL I am such a sap

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